What's going on in Moseley? Scientology HQ

martin_mullaney · **Posted:** Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:39

simonk wrote:

The Church of Scientology was refused charitable status by the government a few years ago, which means it is not formally recognised as a religion. I do think they have not-for-profit status.

I would strongly suggest moving the reference to Robert Matthews, the Aston University lecturer, from the article. As Martin himself acknowledges, the link is purely speculative, and the anti-Scientology people can get a bit weird when people get named in connection with the organisation. Of course we know it's *a* Robert Matthews, but the evidence that it is that one in particular is thin to non-existent.

If you google " "ROBERT JOHN MATTHEWS", Scientology ", you will already find his name and address splashed across several anti-scientology forums. Indeed, my work was based on information I had been e-mailed from these fourms - all I've done is verified the claims and done a bit more research on the Isle of Man companies.

What I wanted to make it clear, in an indirect way, was that I could find no links between Mr Matthews and the Church of Scientology or as a property developer.

beefheart · **Joined:** Wed Nov 14, 2007 17:15 **Posts:** 5960

martin_mullaney wrote:

I can now confirm that I have been provided with Land Registry documents that show that the Pitmaston estate was sold to Centrepoint Limited on the 7th Sept 2007 for £7million.

Within hours, Centrepoint had split the estate into four plots and sold them all for a total of £7.7million.

Companies House records show that Centrepoint Limited has two owners:

1) David Bernard Gaiman of 10 Rockwood Park, Saint Hill Road, East Grinstead RH19 4JX
2) Elizabeth Diane Calcioli of Tall Trees, Rystwood Road, Forest Row, RH18 5LX

Googling the name ‘David Bernard Gaiman’ shows that he is a prominent member of the Church of Scientology – see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Gaiman

David Gaiman is presently the Public Relations Director of the Church of Scientology in England.

According to the Church of Scientologist’s ‘Roll of Honour’ for donations to purchase the Pitmaston building, David Gaiman and his wife, donated £250,000.

Wow £700k profit in hours - not bad

martin_mullaney · **Posted:** Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:59

beefheart wrote:

martin_mullaney wrote:

I can now confirm that I have been provided with Land Registry documents that show that the Pitmaston estate was sold to Centrepoint Limited on the 7th Sept 2007 for £7million.

Within hours, Centrepoint had split the estate into four plots and sold them all for a total of £7.7million.

Companies House records show that Centrepoint Limited has two owners:

1) David Bernard Gaiman of 10 Rockwood Park, Saint Hill Road, East Grinstead RH19 4JX
2) Elizabeth Diane Calcioli of Tall Trees, Rystwood Road, Forest Row, RH18 5LX

Googling the name ‘David Bernard Gaiman’ shows that he is a prominent member of the Church of Scientology – see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Gaiman

David Gaiman is presently the Public Relations Director of the Church of Scientology in England.

According to the Church of Scientologist’s ‘Roll of Honour’ for donations to purchase the Pitmaston building, David Gaiman and his wife, donated £250,000.

Wow £700k profit in hours - not bad

£700k profit for merely splitting up land.

I find it hard to understand how land is worth more separated, than in one lump. I could understand the concept if some work had been done to provide separate entrances to the plots to make them 'development potential'. I can't understand it when nothing is done to the plots

simonk · **Joined:** Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:56 **Posts:** 2129

martin_mullaney wrote:

If you google " "ROBERT JOHN MATTHEWS", Scientology ", you will already find his name and address splashed across several anti-scientology forums. Indeed, my work was based on information I had been e-mailed from these fourms - all I've done is verified the claims and done a bit more research on the Isle of Man companies.

I mean the Aston University lecturer rather than the guy who bought the land. What I meant was, that there was no evidence to suggest that these two Robert Matthewses are one and the same person. If you make the link then people might conclude that they are indeed the same.

Of course it's fine to name the guy in the land registry, but it is less fine to connect him with somebody who may or may not be the same person, without checking.

Neighbour of the Beast · **Joined:** Sun Mar 18, 2007 17:10 **Posts:** 575

martin_mullaney wrote:

Neighbour of the Beast wrote:

What basis do you have for stating that the Aston individual "lives in Nottingham"?

And if you do have evidence of this, where is it freely available on the internet?

The title register will show that the section of woodland immediately behind the Goodby Road properties is now owned by:

ROBERT JOHN MATTHEWS of Woodlands, 127 Kimberley Road, Nuthall, Nottingham NG16 1DD

I think you are missing my point.

How have you linked the Aston individual that you named (and kindly posted his place of work), to the "ROBERT JOHN MATTHEWS of Woodlands, 127 Kimberley Road, Nuthall, Nottingham NG16 1DD" that appears in the Land Registery?

Neighbour of the Beast · **Joined:** Sun Mar 18, 2007 17:10 **Posts:** 575

Simonk, you have been making the same points as me in parallel but better worded posts all over the place.

STOP STALKING ME!!! (Albeit in advance).

simonk · **Joined:** Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:56 **Posts:** 2129

We're like one of those tag teams in wrestling.

forkmonkey · **Joined:** Tue Nov 04, 2008 20:15 **Posts:** 30

martin_mullaney wrote:

I can now confirm that I have been provided with Land Registry documents that show that the Pitmaston estate was sold to Centrepoint Limited on the 7th Sept 2007 for £7million.

Within hours, Centrepoint had split the estate into four plots and sold them all for a total of £7.7million.

Companies House records show that Centrepoint Limited has two owners:

1) David Bernard Gaiman of 10 Rockwood Park, Saint Hill Road, East Grinstead RH19 4JX
2) Elizabeth Diane Calcioli of Tall Trees, Rystwood Road, Forest Row, RH18 5LX

I believe that Elizabeth Diane Calcioli (aka Lizzy Calcioli) is David Gaiman's daughter, and is married to Mauro Calcioli, who is another prominent Scientologist. Accessing BMD or a site like ancestry.co.uk should substantiate the family links for you, but there is some information available via Google (it is absent from Gaiman's Wiki page).

martin_mullaney · **Posted:** Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:49

Neighbour of the Beast wrote:

martin_mullaney wrote:

Neighbour of the Beast wrote:

What basis do you have for stating that the Aston individual "lives in Nottingham"?

And if you do have evidence of this, where is it freely available on the internet?

The title register will show that the section of woodland immediately behind the Goodby Road properties is now owned by:

ROBERT JOHN MATTHEWS of Woodlands, 127 Kimberley Road, Nuthall, Nottingham NG16 1DD

I think you are missing my point.

How have you linked the Aston individual that you named (and kindly posted his place of work), to the "ROBERT JOHN MATTHEWS of Woodlands, 127 Kimberley Road, Nuthall, Nottingham NG16 1DD" that appears in the Land Registery?

I haven't linked him. What I've said is that the only person I can find with that name, who lives in Nottingham is the visiting Aston University lecturer.

If I had said nothing, people on this forum would now be saying "who the hell is Robert John Matthews? Is he a property developer? Is he linked to the Scientologists?" The fact you are not asking those questions, means I've answered them by implication.

Neighbour of the Beast · **Joined:** Sun Mar 18, 2007 17:10 **Posts:** 575

If I can leave the rest of your reply till I've fully recovered from the shock it induced...

martin_mullaney wrote:

I haven't linked him. What I've said is that the only person I can find with that name, who lives in Nottingham is the visiting Aston University lecturer.

How have you come to the conclusion, from freely available internet sources, that the Aston individual lives in Nottingham?

barnardhobbit · **Joined:** Mon Mar 05, 2007 15:34 **Posts:** 7133

[Edited]
This post was edited after I suggested that the person in question be
contacted to find out the truth after "simonk" had in a earlier post had
supplied contact details

martin_mullaney · **Posted:** Wed Nov 12, 2008 13:19

Neighbour of the Beast wrote:

If I can leave the rest of your reply till I've fully recovered from the shock it induced...

martin_mullaney wrote:

I haven't linked him. What I've said is that the only person I can find with that name, who lives in Nottingham is the visiting Aston University lecturer.

How have you come to the conclusion, from freely available internet sources, that the Aston individual lives in Nottingham?

This is totally weird. When I googled " "Robert Matthews" Nottingham ", on Saturday, I am 100% sure that his own website came up in which he said he lived in Nottingham and was a visiting lecturer at Aston University - I can picture the page now in my mind. The website has now gone.

He does appear on Wikipedia at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Matthews_(scientist) and one of his middle initials is J.

Let me have a bit more of look later.

Neighbour of the Beast · **Joined:** Sun Mar 18, 2007 17:10 **Posts:** 575

martin_mullaney wrote:

Neighbour of the Beast wrote:

How have you come to the conclusion, from freely available internet sources, that the Aston individual lives in Nottingham?

This is totally weird. When I googled " "Robert Matthews" Nottingham ", on Saturday, I am 100% sure that his own website came up in which he said he lived in Nottingham and was a visiting lecturer at Aston University - I can picture the page now in my mind. The website has now gone.

He does appear on Wikipedia at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Matthews_(scientist) and one of his middle initials is J.

Let me have a bit more of look later.

You need to a bit more than have a bit more of a look later.

Get Adrian to take down that part that mentions the individual NOW.

Start apologising to him NOW (by which I mean abandon self-justifying distortions like "one of his initials is the same". One of them, the second of the three, isn't).

Attempt to recover from your computer cache the page that you claim to have seen.

Attempt, Canute-like, to stop the link you have made spread further on the internet.

And pray that his interest in idiots' use of coincidence to justify rubbish prevails over a desire to take you to the cleaners.

barnardhobbit · **Joined:** Mon Mar 05, 2007 15:34 **Posts:** 7133

You would have thought that if the Aston individual who is a leading
Scientist who is also a distinguished science journalist who writes on
the subject if he had any connection with Scientology that he would
have been paraded from the roof tops by them and his name would
have come up connected with the cult or is he a "Sleeper" hiding
until called into action ?

Here is a link to his Daily Telegraph Page http://www.telegraph.co.uk/scienceandte ... amp-A.html

He is currently anchorman for the science magazine BBC Focus http://www.bbcfocusmagazine.com/

Ghost_Daz · **Joined:** Sun Mar 18, 2007 19:30 **Posts:** 1940

Quote:

You need to a bit more than have a bit more of a look later.

Get Adrian to take down that part that mentions the individual NOW.

I think it's probably a little bit late for that now. The page has been cached by Google and will be there forever.

To be fair to Martin, when you are a campaigning councillor a bit of collateral damage is always to be expected.

barnardhobbit · **Joined:** Mon Mar 05, 2007 15:34 **Posts:** 7133

Ghost_Daz wrote:

I think it's probably a little bit late for that now. The page has been cached by Google and will be there forever.

To be fair to Martin, when you are a campaigning councillor a bit of collateral damage is always to be expected.

Yes but he is not just a councillor he is a

"Birmingham councillor and architectural historian Martin Mullaney"

beefheart · **Joined:** Wed Nov 14, 2007 17:15 **Posts:** 5960

barnardhobbit wrote:

Ghost_Daz wrote:

I think it's probably a little bit late for that now. The page has been cached by Google and will be there forever.

To be fair to Martin, when you are a campaigning councillor a bit of collateral damage is always to be expected.

Yes but he is not just a councillor he is a

"Birmingham councillor and architectural historian Martin Mullaney"

Let me correct your English Barnard: Birmingham councillor and 'Architectural Historian' Martin Mullaney.

barnardhobbit · **Joined:** Mon Mar 05, 2007 15:34 **Posts:** 7133

beefheart wrote:

Let me correct your English Barnard: Birmingham councillor and 'Architectural Historian' i.e Martin Mullaney.

Thanks for you help but is was a quote that is why I put it in between "" that is taken from the first line of this article http://www.thestirrer.co.uk/question-ma ... 11081.html

Quote:

Birmingham councillor and architectural historian Martin Mullaney

TheStirrer · **Joined:** Thu Feb 01, 2007 11:29 **Posts:** 11786

Speculation about the identity of Robert John Matthews will be removed from the article. You make a fair point. Cheers.

martin_mullaney · **Posted:** Wed Nov 12, 2008 17:32

Neighbour of the Beast wrote:

Get Adrian to take down that part that mentions the individual NOW.

Start apologising to him NOW (by which I mean abandon self-justifying distortions like "one of his initials is the same". One of them, the second of the three, isn't).

Attempt to recover from your computer cache the page that you claim to have seen.

Attempt, Canute-like, to stop the link you have made spread further on the internet.

And pray that his interest in idiots' use of coincidence to justify rubbish prevails over a desire to take you to the cleaners.

I'm confused here. You're implying that I have said something libellous about Robert Matthews, the visiting Aston University lecturer. I have said no such thing.

Show me where I've said anything libellous about Robert Matthews.

The Stirrer

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