The Stirrer

I have read lots of posts from people complaining about the design. I have offered to visit the flats and see these claims about poor design - nobody has taken up this offer or even shown evidence of the poor design. I therefore do not believe the claims about poor design.

The Abacus development received planning permission in 2003. If you listen to Kent Davis talking on Pete Ashton video - http://vimeo.com/5238091 - he says at the start that the Rainbow didn't become a live music venue until 2004.

People on this messageboard keep claiming that the Abacus developement did not do a proper noise assessment - EXCUSE ME, but the Spotted Dog was not doing music in the beer garden till 2am at the time and according to Kent Davis, the Rainbow wasn't even a music venue at the time. (my memory is that it did DJ music, which probably explains the lower music levels).

So why don't the Rainbow and the Spotted Dog pay for the Abacus developement to have triple glazing and sound proofing all round.

I'm afraid it does. The definition of bullying is: to hurt, intimidate or persecute (a weaker or smaller person).

Throughout this argument, it has always being about 'this one complainant' or 'the Abacus One'. Nothing is ever mentioned about their rights, about their right to a nights sleep. Nobody has ever tried to see things from their perspective.

In the Kent Davis presentation at http://vimeo.com/5238091 , he mentions that with the Spotted Dog three people originally complained and eventually two withdrew their complaint. Was that because they felt intimidated? Was it because they felt bullied?

Thanks Martin for finally being honest about your opinion of the patrons of the Rainbow.

You know something, Martin, I know exactly what bullying means and its impact on a person. This does not apply in this situation by any stretch of the imagination. You are too personally wrapped up in this now to be able to see the wood for the trees.

Well Pam you do not strike me as a late night reveller so cannot understand why you would want to defend loud music late a night impinging on 1/2/3 however many residents are complaining - how would you like it if it was next to your property...

Because there is only one complainant if they have their complaint dealt with then all of this nonsense comes to an end. It doesn't necessarily have to be at the expense of a decent percentage of Birmingham. The majority of people who drink in Digbeth do it to escape the Broad Street "knuckledraggers". This isn't about Booze Britain its about a community that is being needlessly dismantled. Tell me in what other capacity 1 to 3 complainants would be able to secure the results that this person is receiving?

This person needs to be interviewed by a local media outlet to let them tell their side of the conflict. If they don't have the courage of their own convictions to answer reasonable questions like "Why would you like to deprive 20,000 people of their community instead of have your apartment soundproofed?" why should they have their wishes taken on as marching orders by BCC. Being able to judge this person on their answers will also provide incite into their motivation. If they are supposedly a disgruntled DJ who hates the Rainbow then would that make their opinion and crusade any less valid? I think it would.

Human beings behave in certain ways and dancing and congregating en masse is obviously something that people like to do. Where does BCC suggest this takes place?

There is more to this than meets the eye. I personally hope that BCC sees sense.

Hyperbole lends no weight to your spurious point, in fact it makes it appear somewhat ridiculous.

We are talking about noise nuisance not genocide.

Regardless of the issues of BCC accepting the developers flawed & non independent noise assessment, the support for the Rainbow from other Abacus dwellers and the Nightingale case precedent indicating that BCC are incorrect in their interpretation of the Act the fact remains that in a democracy the situation should not arise whereby the wishes of some twenty thousand people are ignored in favour of the wishes of one.



Fund raising is exactly what Kent was proposing to do in August so that this one renting tenant could be appeased at the cost to his business of £30k. Then BCC slapped a noise abatement order on his business meaning that he can not do so.

I'm still unhappy that Martin seems to think that those of us who want to see the Spotted Dog and Rainbow pubs to continue to flourish, are bullies.

I have had personal experience of bullying. The feeling that this engenders is nothing compared with what Martin describes. Developers have a responsibility to ensure that their plans include the involvement of local communities.

And I'm going to be a bit even more personal.

I believe that people like John and Kent are what Birmingham needs to present a positive image to our visitors.

Martin, stop your silly campaign.

As a maker of music type noise -- and with many talented friends in the area who's living depends upon making live music without backing tracks or DJ / Karaoke type noise -- I concur with every comment above except those of Martin's in whom I'm now desperately disappointed.

A little music is called for this one from Pete Seeger called "Little Boxes"
and very aptly also titled *The Rainbow Quest Episode 6"

I saw / heard the woman singer who wrote 'Little Boxes' performing and singing many of her own protest type songs -- at the Grey Cock Folk Club in Birmingham around 30 years ago -- her name was Malvina Reynolds.

If the BCC noise police had been around in those days, hundreds of talented people would never have emerged to entertain and enlighten us -- including the Campbell brothers who founded UB40.

When Malvina was asked to go back to point out the houses that inspired her song (in Daly San Francisco)) she couldn't find them -- as her daughter reminisced after she died in 1978:

"My mother and father were driving South from San Francisco through Daly City when my mom got the idea for the song. She asked my dad to take the wheel, and she wrote it on the way to the gathering in La Honda where she was going to sing for the Friends Committee on Legislation. When Time Magazine (I think, maybe Newsweek) wanted a photo of her pointing to the very place, she couldn’t find those houses because so many more had been built around them that the hillsides were totally covered."

This is what the BCC and their developer cronies want to do to everywhere in Birmingham -- with Digbeth top of the list.

Did Martin Mullaney really just say that?

Sort of undermines everything he's got to say on the matter really...

I love live music and I love cricket.

On the recent Edgbaston development even though I'm a lifelong follower of cricket and Warwickshire C.C. I was anti the full development proposed by the club, yes cricket has been there before the current batch of residents, but night time cricket with it's extra noise running late into the evening and floodlights was not something that the residents expected when they moved in.

I don't really know much about the two pubs in question, but, IF the actual fact is that they have elongated their hours and pumped up the volume AFTER these residents purchased their homes then I am on the side of the residents, whether it is one or one hundred that are complaining is not relevant.

There is something here about historical relevance of music venues too. I'm not too aware of the Spotted Dog, I went to the Rainbow once talent Scouting for a production (we booked someone whom we saw).

If the Venues have extended their 'Noise' hours post Resident Moving into the area, without consultation locally, them I'm with the residents on this. If residents moved in aware of what 'Vibrant city living' entails, then they really don't have much to go on. At least morally.

Also 'Type' of music. Some music is acoustic or by nature quieter and doesn't carry far from the venue if at all. Amplified music can be very loud with the Bass rumbling through buildings (you'll know what I mean when a car passes your home with a Big Bass System in it), higher frequencies carry more distance through the air.

I have a recording studio in a residential area. I checked with neighbours before setting it up and am very careful of the hours it operates within, the noise linits etc and of course it is soundproofed. I felt this was the wisest course of action to prevent complaints, because once they come, life gets difficult. From what I have read, the way BCC have dealt with this seems very underhand.

Anyway apart from this just look to all the under utilized Working Mens's Clubs, old Halls with stages etc. Not trendy maybe, but cheap and fit for purpose.