The Stirrer

Perhaps a model whereby officers don't overreact to a 'swagger' from a middle aged man who is clearly no threat to them might help.

Agreed, but just because you get it right say 90% of the time doesn't give you carte blanche to behave like knuckle dragging thugs say 10% of the time. Whilst maintaining public order, the police have a duty to keep their own short fuses under constant review. Had I.T. been brandishing a weapon then I would agree, their actions would have been commensurate with the ensuing problemHave I done that?

Edit:

Like you I will quote from personal experience. You should have seen the way one officer looked at me during the Gaza demo in Brum earlier this year. I wasn't even in the midst of it, just quietly taking photographs and generally just being there. He had a frighteningly menacing look of disdain on his face. That's the sort of front line outlook to which I refer. Like I.T. I would have been an easy target. The fools burning the Israeli flag seemed to get away with it.

The officer concerned is a liability to the force and needs to be removed from it asap.

Whilst there has been some crass insensitivity displayed on this thread - I feel this is not one of the worst cases of police brutality going by the footage alone (history has shown themselves to behave far worse than this). The mans body language was slightly provocative, ok the police can generally be brutish in these situations so best stay clear if you can. And finally the poor mans clearly must have had health issues before since I cannot see how being pushed over, unless you crack your head (he may have done cannot tell?) its not likely you will die because of it.

I would ask all contributors to this thread to ask themselves whether you would want this police officer working for you.

Hold up there.

Don't forget the guy's age AND the fact that he'd just done a day's work flogging papers standing up it seems.

Might have been walking slow because of medical or physical problems, might just have been knackered at the end of a day's work. When I was younger than him I couldn't walk fast because of a bad back, used to take me ages to get home.

Something else it might be, I had a heart attack when I was 58. Didn't know I was having it and went to work. After a while I could hardly move my arms and walked like a turtle, just like that man was.

I am not sure my point was meant to be crassley insensitive. All I am saying is that,and having been in the vicinity on the day, there was a accident waiting to happen. And it did. My point is that certain prostesters were there not to peacefully protest but cause trouble. I am not condoning the police but they went into it with a fighting mentality as did pseudo hippies.

so are you saying he would have died irrespective of the police push - interesting?

Not necessarily refering to your post my LordS, though it was strident what your wrote.

okay; fair enough; but its been a one sided debate so far. I am not on any side of the arguement other than all things need to be considered in the round.

Did I say that?

Mine was a mild heart attack but because I never knew what it was it went on a long time and did the same damage as a major heart attack.

IF, only IF, the guy was having the kind of attack I had he would probably have survived because in the end the pain gets so bad you've got to do something about it. But if some thug come up from behind like that copper did your blood pressure will zoom up - last thing you want in a heart attack - and your heart will race like a motor, something else you don't want.

That's what I'm saying.

It doesn't matter though Beefheart, the resulting assault was not commensurate with the actions of Tomlinson regardless. Whether they exacerbated or caused the heart attack is immaterial, the thuggery was inexcusable.

Don't worry, the coroner dealing with this death will probably stick with The Establishment view from my own personal experience of the service. If he/she hasn't the balls either way, a jury will be called.

Going off on a tangent here: It would be interesting to know what is the mean age of the male stirrers on here and maybe the standard deviation?

It's obviously a tragedy for his family that this man died, but that's not the issue we are discussing.

The Guardian clip should be in the public domain, but the accompanying narrative is unnecessarily emotive speculation. All I'm saying is that he put himself in the situation where he was liable to be struck. I suppose I might have a different view if it turns out that he is in some way disabled, but I haven't heard any evidence of that.

That just sounds half-baked and disingenuous to me. Does it matter if he was disabled? Or should anyone who staggers into a scene like that deserve getting their legs struck with the full force of a baton and their backs bludgeoned such that they fall to the ground in a crumpled heap?

Police - Are you disabled sir? You seem to have an awkward gait.
Potential Victim: No officer, but I am a knackered middle-aged newspaper vendor!
Police - Oh okay, then I have the right to smash your face in sir. Please lean this way!

Give me strength!

It's a scary world you live in where simply making your way home from work is putting yourself in a situation to be struck.

What the footage clearly shows is a man, committing no offence, being assaulted by a police officer. While it may not be the most vicious assault ever, it is still an unprovoked attack. The combination of his subsequent death and the police lies over the incident mark this as a serious event requiring investigation.

You must be watching a different video to the rest of us.

It was the copper who put himself in a situation to push the bloke. Whether the guy was disabled or not doesn't come into it.

We've all met arsehole coppers in our lives. Tiny minority, but they're the ones you remember.

20 years ago I was talking with a mate in a bus shelter in Spon End. All of a sudden a police car drew up behind the shelter and some arsehole in uniform got out and said he'd seen me urinate in the shelter. I hadn't, but if I had he couldn't have seen it. Upshot was I wasn't wearing it and said so. This guy and the policewoman with him just suddenly cuffed me an I was carted off to the cells, then charged. My mate couldn't believe it.

Got to court a few months later. That lying arsehole stood up in court and said he was on his way to the scene of a burglary in Spon End when he saw me urinating. My solicitor wiped the floor with his evidence and I got off. But that lying toerag stayed a copper!

You Tories would be proud of him.

So we should all stay at home because the police might beat us.

Beautiful.

I must have been watching a different video. I don't like police brutality - this isn't it.

We're headed close to "He/she was asking for it" territory here.

He had committed no crime. He was therefore never in a situation where he was legally liable to be struck.

This most certainly was police brutality. Unfathomable, disproportionate force by an indisciplined officer who is palpably of a temperament unsuited to policing.

He must be removed from the force.